The Macross Frontier love triangle, it really is a polarizing topic and there is so much negativity associated around it that I almost don’t want to bring it up. However, this article is about trying to bring some positivity to the ones who need something to be happy about. So I specifically made this for all the Ranka fans (<3 you all) and hopefully to the idea that perhaps both sides had their happy end even if the world requires only one canon couple. But I do believe it’s fine to think what you want about it all in the end and I have no desire to try to convince people who want a Sheryl ending in the TV series otherwise.
While I could go on for hours ranting on this subject instead I think the most effective method to get my point across is in a screenshot comparison which I will be presenting below. The first screenshot will be from TV series and the second from Sayonara no Tsubasa. I also suggest you look at this blog post I wrote which works well as a companion as the scene discussed in that post occurs just before all the scenes listed below and I believe fits in quite nicely with my opinions.
Instead of an introduction to my thoughts behind it all I’ll just let the scenes below speak for themselves. There are more in the first movie however I feel the following are enough as they are among the most important scenes in relation to how Alto ends up deciding and I believe the rest are just extra padding on it all.
Alto being conflicted about the traitor Ranka.
Alto deep in thought with being conflicted about the spy Sheryl.
Pretty clear-cut, one thing for sure is just how much Ranka is on Alto’s mind in the TV series while Sheryl is on his mind in the two movies most of the time.
Sheryl watching Alto here from afar.
Ranka watching Alto here from afar.
I think it’s fairly well implied here that this is where both of them accept their fate on some level. It’s more obvious in Sheryl’s case though but while Ranka’s was not as much, with the comparison here, it still strengthens the case for the idea.
Ranka leaving Alto and giving up on love with a fading trail of tears.
Sheryl leaving Alto and handing Ranka to Alto more or less (with a fading trail of tears not pictured).
Alto's reaction to Ranka leaving.
Alto's reaction to Sheryl saving Ranka over herself.
So Alto must face life without Ranka in the TV series and life without Sheryl in the movie. What better way to start to understand how you feel when you’re as clueless as he is. Another aspect is that Ranka was apart from Alto for most of the end of the TV series while Sheryl was apart from Alto for a large chunk of Sayonara no Tsubasa. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
There has been some discussion on the difference between these scenes before but you need to keep it in context with everything going on and more importantly the second set of screen caps. I think considering the situations and Alto being still a bit unstable in both cases that this was both Ranka and Sheryl’s big chance but instead they both placed more importance on their singing and also with the understanding that it would not really be what Alto wanted.
There are also quite a few reversed situations for the battle that comes next however they don’t really have anything to do with the love triangle other than continue to show that Ranka and Sheryl were reversed.
Rescuing the one you love towards the climax, standard for what the lead does in every story like this. How often does the lead go and save the women he doesn’t love while the one he loves is watching from the sidelines.
Alto doing the salute to just Sheryl.
Alto doing the salute to both of them.
This is a bit off topic but this is the reason why you shouldn’t use referencing as some kind of an encyclopedia. It was thought that because Alto did the salute to Sheryl in the TV series that since it was referencing Hikaru’s salute to Misa in the original it meant she was the winner but then how do you explain the other screen cap? References are mostly used just to give some service to fans, trying to get extra meaning behind them is just silly to me. In particular is how often Ranka is explained with using her as Minmay, something I may save for another article as I consider it a self-defeating ideal.
The question to doubters in the end is why would so much stuff be swapped like this if I’m wrong. Why go through the trouble of doing something so subtle but yet obvious to anyone who thinks about it clearly if it was not to imply such things. I’ve read on old Ranka shipping forums people who just by watching the Sayonara no Tsubasa trailer before the movie was released express deep fear over a Sheryl ending just by the stuff they saw swapped. They could have done things that were not in relation to the TV series just as easily if they wanted too, after all Sayonara no Tsubasa had an original plot, or at least kept the roles similar if there was no intention behind this all. Anyways, I find an ending for both girls a very pleasant way to go about things even if there are no undeniable facts to it either way.
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i’m sorry…too mindfuck’d to think.
lol
oh my gawd, all this time!! D:
and since Kawamori – suggesting if it was indeed true – said that he had nothin’ to do with the SherylAlto moments before the ending was made, right?
NOOOOOOO ; n;
Orz
About the Sheryl x Alto moments, I really don’t think they are that big a deal personally regardless who was involved or what exactly happen. You have to remember they only happen after Ranka left Alto and look at that from Alto’s view. He saw Ranka saying I loved you (past tense) and running off with a guy he had no idea was her brother at the time. Also remember he never once considered her a traitor like everyone else did he always believed in her because she was his wings from the moment he joined SMS, which Kawamori stated on Macross radio being his wings meant he trusted her. He obviously was fairly clueless on his own feelings or he would have said something long before the show ended but it wouldn’t be hard to think he would rebound with Sheryl right?
Particularly funny/disturbing, which links in with the other comment you made, was that he did indeed learn of Sheryl’s terminal illness and then might have had sexy time with her in episode 22 when she was asking him for strength. But what is disturbing part is the fact that she was wearing his mother’s old clothes (which he noted Sheryl looked like her mother in them in like episode 16) in his childhood home and his mother also died of a terminal disease when he was a child. ROFL So yeah another way to explain some of it if you want was mother issues. He was more or less trying to escape his trapped princess like childhood with his father for most of the show and this would link it as well with the idea he had a lot of child issues to get over.
It’s also used a lot that a script writer had said that in episode 24 Alto was trying to confess his love to Sheryl but still if you think about all that happened during episode 21-24 it’s easy to say he was running away because he thought Ranka left him over a misunderstanding he didn’t even realize. It’s also easy to say in the same scene that Sheryl saw he was running away and told him to shut up and fight for his girl if you think about it. So in the end I don’t think the Sheryl x Alto moments really mean anything over what the whole story presented from start to finish. I’d rather look into the whole picture rather than just focus on one thing that can be taken out of context easily. Sorry for going on so much about this, I easily get into this which is why I preferred to do screenshots over some lengthy discussion. 🙂
in other words… a severe case of “mother complex” LMAO JK XD
You know some Sheryl fans think it’s a good thing for Alto to have a mother complex because I guess it doesn’t matter how messed up he is as long as Sheryl wins. rofl But I don’t think any girl in the world wants a man to love them because he reminds them of their mother. XD I’d consider it about the same as when we found out Brera was Ranka’s brother, it’s not happening and get over it.
hooooooooly shiiiiiiiiiiittttt D: WHY NO RANKA ENDING FOR THE TV SERIES DAMMIT
It’s so damn obvious Sheryl wasn’t meant to be with Alto from the very beginning, the fact that they swapped so much in the movies meant that the original (TV) story was supposed to go one way, but due to the wonderful factor that is called MONEY everything went to the crap chute, damn….
Probably with the way things went this was our best case scenario. The most annoying part was there were too few really nice scenes with Alto and Ranka. They were always so shy around each other, nor did she ever really get to kiss him like Sheryl but then again Sheryl is the only aggressive one only out of the three so sadly it makes more sense.
You know I probably should have added the scenes from the beginning of the show in this post since they are actually important thinking about it more. Such as how Alto saves Ranka in the TV series but they swap to Sheryl in the movies. Also how they had Sheryl butt into what I think is the most important scene in the entire series in Utahime which is when Ranka sings Aimo (the mating song of the Vajra no less) to Alto and he decides right after to join the SMS to protect her, which he does so for the entire series.
Wow…just…wow. This completely confirms my feelings that they swapped Ranka & Sheryl’s moments in the movies in comparison to the tv series and then some! When you lay the screenshots next to each other like this, it really is obvious. Not sure if it’s right to feel this way, but it makes me laugh a little that instead of developing a new romance path for Sheryl, they just swapped Ranka out and put Miss Nome in instead. That’s just incredibly lazy but more importantly a huge indication of the tv series true intentions. I mean, even the most die hard Sheryl shippers must acknowledge that because the vast majority of their shipping scenes occur with Ranka in the original then the romance remains, regardless of which character it is…
Another interesting scene that I think links to this post is right at the beginning of the first film, when Alto saves Sheryl from the Vajra attack during her concert. What happens in the tv series? Why, Alto saves Ranka from the Vajra attack doesn’t he 😉
Shippers though tend to see what they want to see, this is why I am a bit worried about my post here but I felt the screenshots were a pretty solid form of evidence. I’m pretty sure though if you show this post to Sheryl shippers they will tell me how it’s all wrong. haha
I was thinking about using that scene you mentioned, I probably should have as it’s extremely important as Kawamori seems to place importance on things that leave lasting impressions on someones minds at the start (which I suppose is why people make such a big deal over who really met Alto first in the TV series). It was pretty clear Sheryl left one on Alto in the movies (add in the stupid childhood memory too) as well as Ranka in the TV series. In a way I think I just cleared up a little doubt left in my mind thinking about how the TV series progressed early on. Man now I want to redo my post to add this scene since it’s kind of a slam dunk after hearing him talk in a interview about this leaving a lasting impression thing recently.
What I like to call the extreme fans are annoying like that. They always find something to make it sound good for their character. Probably get an issue with sequence of events and the context of events. Sheryl fans are always eager to point out Sheryl was considered dead but Alto didn’t make a “move” on Ranka. If Alto did I wonder what people would think of his character.
Are you talking about in the movie? Alto was still unsure of his feelings until he remembered that silly childhood flashback so that means nothing to me. Ranka was the aggressive one in the movies and Sheryl was in the TV series and the aggressive girl usually loses because there is a good reason they need to be aggressive.
I think it would have looked badly on Alto. When someone has died you need a time to come to terms with it. At the same time I didn’t think we would get same thing as Sheryl had in series. Ranka and Alto are different type.
Thought I would throw this in here… How I think the triangle should have ended:
Sheryl confesses that she wasn’t really that in love with Alto. She only wanted him because she needed someone but doesn’t want Alto anymore. He is a “fly boy” and she wants someone more devoted to her. She tells Alto to go off and be with Ranka because that is what he wants and she’s kinda sorry for misleading him all this time and upsetting Ranka.
Alto goes off and basically gets into his ship and cue final battle. Alto flies around and then eventually picks up Ranka for let’s make peace with Vajera by charging into them while Ranka and Sheryl are singing moment. That happens and ship gets destroyed both eject and get rescued by Vajera Queen. Cue Triangular song. Ranka is about to confess her love to Alto but Alto goes in for a kiss as they both warp away to safety. Sheryl is left behind with Ranka’s brother Brera.
A few months later… It’s time for a wedding. Sheryl is getting married to Brera before going off on another galaxy tour with him. At that moment the doors to church open and we see shadows of two people. Probably Ranka and Alto. We get a final shot fading to dark of a happy Sheryl and Brera. While credits roll we get duet concert in background.
What do you lot think? It’s kinda starts off like series before final battle. Then we got the movies final battles combined and finally the Blue Ether scene but with Alto tagging along.
Nice endings for Ranka will always get my approval. 😀
continuing from the twitter conversation…
I think one really interesting thing though with the episode 24 pre-battle scene between Alto and Sheryl is from considering his experiences with his dead friend Michael and Klan. I mean he saw first hand how the two were never able to tell each other how they felt before Michael died and both had told him he needs to tell his feelings before its too late. I don’t see how this couldn’t have affected him considering Michael died right in front of him.
This seems kind of interesting that they would throw in this aspect into the show with such a big impact as to kill off a major character, bring it up several times again and in the place that he should have done it, if he was going to confess to Sheryl considering the situation, he just doesn’t. Instead he basically lets Sheryl talk over him and for the whole time and ended it without hardly any protest from him. I mean if he was trying to tell her he love her before the big battle he sure didn’t mind her talking him out of it so at the very least you can say he had very poor resolve about it at least until the part where she said how he didn’t want her to tell him because she couldn’t sing.
You could say it’s because they decided not to end the triangle in the show but based on precedent I highly highly doubt this was where the would have ended it, especially when you factor in what happened in the movies. In fact I figure it would have either been in the “you are my wings” place or more likely on the plant when he reached his hand out at the end(btw I didn’t notice before how his hand in the final shot is reaching towards Ranka not really sure it means anything but it could). So yeah I never felt this scene was a positive for the Sheryl ship until I read that a screenwriter had said Alto was trying to confess during it. But after reading the actual quote he never specifically said that and flat out said it was his opinion and people should think for themselves. Like the screenshots imply and a whole lot of other things I really don’t think Sheryl was setup up in any way to win this thing.
One thing of the mother aspect too I thought about is I really wonder if Sheryl and Alto were suited for each other in the TV series. I mean I feel like what Sheryl really needed more than anything was something more like close family-like friends before a romantic partner. I feel like she would have continued to be needy if she felt she only had Alto’s love to keep her going. Instead this idea of Ranka and Alto together showing her she’s not alone in episode 25 works a lot better for her character to become stronger. I think it’s something not a lot of people think about in their shipping mindset. In the movies her relationship with Ranka is very deep and she doesn’t feel so alone (she even says it in utahime at the end) and thus the neediness is gone and she is more suited for romance.
But I really do wish we had a smoking gun here for all of this. Instead there is just a ton of small things that fit together and it’s very hard to convince people because you can discount them all separately but together it’s just very hard to deny Ranka didn’t win. Bbecause really it just makes the most sense with the least amount of holes in the logic and events. I guess my screenshot thing up there is fairly close but not 100% (I mean there is never going to be a 100%) since it’s pretty obvious they switched the girls in the movies for all this important stuff relating to the love triangle.
what i like the most in that post – other than a HappyEnd for Ranka-baby – is that it’s SherylBrera End. i started shipping those two since the first movie. don’t deny how they actually look really good together compared to her and Alto 😛
Alto’s always being pulled (or pushed? xD) around by her, it’s kind of hard to watch how awkward that is. lol
in the case of Brera, she can’t do that to him, coz he’s pretty emotionless, unless Ranka was involved xD
lmao, now that i think about it, those two men have something in common, “sister complex” and “mother complex” HAHAHA
ROFL I’m amazed there was no therapist in this show.
Sheryl X Brera has all kinds of fun possibilities. It would be great if they did another alternate telling or sequel to the series we get to see Sheryl manage to get a funny reaction from Brera. Probably do that by confessing her love for him. XD
As for the therapists I think Grace took care of them earlier. They go against the carefully made plans.
YESSSS WHY DIDN’T THEY GO WITH THAT?! Dx
now that i keep thinking about it, there are SO MANY FUN POSSIBILITIES about that pairing!
ARGH (# ノ｀A´)ﾉ~⌒┻━┻
AltoSheryl is actually VERY boring of a pairing. Sheryl will be the one to lead their relationship. where’s the fun in that? and Alto does not have a backbone. = n= (i only see him blushing every single time. sure, as a girl, i would find that cute…but ARGH! Alto is NOT cute that way coz that’s all he ever does!! they both need to hard work to have a balancing relationship!!)
in AltoRanka, Alto will lead them at first, but once Ranka is determined not to bother Alto in being submissive, they’ll be both working hard to lead each other in their relationship…well, more like, form a silent contract that they’ll be helping each other. now that’s a balance!! = u= i find that so cute though. uguu > u<
and for BreraSheryl, Sheryl will try to lead it, but it's NO EASY task! Brera is one big hurdle to try and jump over on. HAHA, that would pretty much lit Sheryl's competitiveness. ;D
I really don’t get why people say Sheryl x Alto is the better couple. Why exactly? Like you said it’s boring. Sure it’s not like they are bad for each other but they sure aren’t better than Ranka x Alto. From what I’ve seen it’s mostly people having something against Ranka being with Alto for silly reasons like she never asked him about himself or moe characters can’t love. I don’t even want to get into that stupidity but yeah I see zero reasons for Alto and Ranka not to be a good couple.
I think a lot of fans want to see Sheryl with someone. She is needy character and it makes sense for her to have someone by her side. Grace for example. Since a lot look at Alto as being a prize… It’s just that they don’t want to see Sheryl lose.
About the “mother complex” thing.
i think it’s okay. i mean most guys who’ve had such a loving mother prolly looks for a woman who’d care for them the same way their mother did.
the DIFFERENT thing about Alto though…is that’s NOT how he sees Sheryl. he sees her like his mother in a way that she’s weak and needs protection, and her sickness makes him protect her in that way.
it’s not the same thing as looking for a “motherly” side to a girl you’re in love with.
which is why i find this utterly weird. there’s a limit to finding this “motherly” feel to a person you like (same goes for girls who look at guys who’d take care of them well like their father did)
For those reasons I’d really like to think that nothing much happen between Sheryl and Alto in that episode 22 scene. I mean it means nothing for the love triangle but I just find it way too weird not to mention completely out of character for someone like Alto. I suppose there is no proof, I’ve been told they were considering making the scene more graphic (no proof on this) and in the manga they did it but the manga means nothing despite what people think and they were also considering killing Sheryl briefly so do those things really prove anything?
Yes. Fans will see what they want to see.
This is what is different:
Sheryl being a traitor makes Alto wish he stops flying. Ranka being a traitor makes him wish to drop a nuke on her face. Sheryl convinced him to sav Ranka. Alto didn’t need so much pushing when is about Sheryl. He even crossdressed for her.
When Sheryl ‘left’ (died), Alto was emo and wore her earring like KLAN wore Michael’s glasses. He also was going to stop flying after the war. Nothing happened between Alto and Ranka.
When Ranka ‘left’, Alto became Sheryl’s lover and both had sex.
In the movies, Alto ignores Ranka and walks to the sortie while she’s the one who seeks him out to confess. His reaction is underwhelming. He gives her a comfort hug without any sort of turmoil. They depart in a quiet note, he never answers he’ll return for her.
In the tv series, *Alto* seeks Sheryl out and is spilling his feelings to her (“one mustn’t fly alone”) and he’ll definitely return to her after all is done. It is Sheryl who tells him they should stop being lovers. Alto reacts and tries to stop her, reluctant to be quiet. She kisses him to shut him up. Alto kisses back and she pushes him away, ending this conversation via flirting with each others.
This is the major difference:
Ranka didn’t want to listen because she knew he didn’t love her. Sheryl because she thought she was going to die (audio commentary makes this clearer: Sheryl didn’t think she was going to survive and didn’t want Alto to be heartbroken aka Ranka was set to be a rebound in her mind).
Obstacles of why they didn’t want to hear him out were different. Sheryl felt he shouldn’t love a dead woman. Ranka knew he didn’t love her. When her life is no longer in danger, Sheryl Nome has absolutely no doubts about who Alto doubts.
Ranka does.
Your a bit silly replying to a really older blog post but I figured you would. This is a Ranka blog. While different opinions are always welcome anywhere there is a wrong and a right way going about it. A lot of Macross F stuff is interpretation. What you want can effect how you interpret the scene.
Alto while saying he would kill her it’s potentially to save her innocence and memories of her. She was “traitor” with Vajra not with another Macross. She also left and wasn’t about to be executed. Part of it is he wants to take responsibility for letting Ranka go. Unlike scene where Sheryl shoved Ranka at Alto Ranka was stood next to Alto for a lot of stuff leading up to her departure. He could have convinced her to stay.
Alto did show strongly his thoughts were of Ranka after she left. Looking at her picture and stuff like that. Nothing happened with Ranka in movies but Sheryl was considered dead and was after the whole traitor and rescue part. Which does make a difference. Going to need time to get over death before you can go off with other girl. If you felt betrayed in some ways you might want to get back at the girl by going with rival.
Still no idea what scene people are talking about. I do know Alto spent night at his home where Sheryl was staying at when she was depressed. That doesn’t really mean a whole lot. Alto wasn’t in best mood either so probably just keeping each other company. Nothing to me from watching it screamed that is what happened.
I don’t recall Alto seeking Sheryl out. They just met up before final battle. I recall that. Don’t recall a searching scene.
I wouldn’t say she didn’t have any doubts. If she had no doubts and if it was so obvious Alto would have confessed to her at end. Instead he choose sky. That is his character. As a result yes your free to say Sheryl won later on but so are others free to say Sheryl hooked up with Brera for a better and far more interesting pairing.
So yeah the scenes in context are different but the roles themselves have reversed. Movies are alternate version to series. That itself is biggest hint.
The biggest difference between series and movies was movies was set from beginning to end triangle. As a result a lot of it was geared for Sheryl to be chosen from beginning. There is no clear answer as to if this was done because of Sheryl’s popularity. The movies were made after series so it’s very likely input from series influenced end out come for the movies. Which is why I didn’t want the movies to answer triangle (that and I knew from why Alto acts in series that it would most likely be bad end). I would have preferred two movies alongside series that gives answers to plot holes within the series.
Just responding to the parts you are unsure about since I’ve already made my views clear on the rest before no need to keep beating a dead horse for everyone who brings this stuff up. If your asking about the sex scene your right about what you talked about being that scene. I’m pretty sure I’ve already talked about this scene in the comments here so I’ll leave it to people who care to read but in summary it means nothing but I suggest anyone needing to bring it up first respond to my other comments I originally wrote about it before alluding to it in a separate comment, not that I really want anyone too at this point as I am ready to be done with this shipping nonsense.
For your Alto seeking Sheryl out semi-question Alto in episode 24 went to see Sheryl in her room, calling it seeking out not accurate because he knows where she is but that exact term is not just used here but other forums as well because people like to over embellish like he was on a quest or something in the name of shipping. Anyways I was trying to word my original post with this idea in mind but I guess it doesn’t matter how I word it. If anything I think its more strange that Sheryl didn’t seek out Alto in episode 24 because she was the only one talking in the scene if Alto had something important to tell her he sure didn’t have much resolve, nor did he have much resolve about killing Ranka (not that he ever said he was planning on doing it) if Sheryl can say one sentence at the end and that convinces him with no visible facial response and then go to in the following battle to a state where he is asking (I’d almost call it pleading myself) Sheryl to help him wake up Ranka. lol Anyways I should probably set a lock on old posts likes this if I can so I don’t keep getting more random people needing to bring up this stuff.
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